Rod sensitivity subjective?

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GOOD YEAR 71
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Re: Rod sensitivity subjective?

Postby GOOD YEAR 71 » Tue Mar 07, 2017 1:51 pm

In defense of TT, how many would buy a stick because it is .0001% more sensitive'? What about balance (a personal peeve), build quality, performance, comfort, reliability, availability, cost, warranty? I'd venture most consider such more important.
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Re: Rod sensitivity subjective?

Postby spookybaits » Tue Mar 07, 2017 2:07 pm

GOOD YEAR 71 wrote:In defense of TT, how many would buy a stick because it is .0001% more sensitive'? What about balance (a personal peeve), build quality, performance, comfort, reliability, availability, cost, warranty? I'd venture most consider such more important.

That's valid. Case in point- NRX may beat the St. Croix legend elite in sensitivity but for me, having a more durable coating/paint, far better guides, better reel seat, better balance, better cork, full grip, etc makes it an easy decision.
But for someone else, they may prefer the NRX for its action/tip, esthetics, split grip, edge in sensitivity, lighter weight, G loomis brand name, etc.

All that being said, I'd definitely like to see some sort of measurable sensitivity/vibration transition data, and if I was torn between 2 rods I could see it being a deciding factor (especially for bottom contact rods).
Just dunno if there's a device, or how well it would work on a fishing rod. And would it even be applicable since we measure sensitivity thru the lure & line. And then you'd have to take rod actions & power into account..

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Obz
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Re: Rod sensitivity subjective?

Postby Obz » Tue Mar 07, 2017 4:53 pm

No matter what #'s or test say there is always going to be personal preference involved. I think if you sent the same signal through different rods only changing one variable at a time you would see patterns that are usefull.. Even mimic different situations like bottom contact or moving baits such as rattle traps. Different materials transmit different frequencies better than others, Its probably safe to hypothisisze a material that is best for bottom contact may not be as great for traps.

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Re: Rod sensitivity subjective?

Postby Randingo » Wed Mar 08, 2017 2:42 am

GOOD YEAR 71 wrote:In defense of TT, how many would buy a stick because it is .0001% more sensitive'? What about balance (a personal peeve), build quality, performance, comfort, reliability, availability, cost, warranty? I'd venture most consider such more important.


I agree: while the sensitivity of the raw blank is one thing, the combination of of all factors in the build, such as balance and comfort, as well as the suitability of the power and action of the finished rod to the user's way of fishing a particular technique all factor into the perception of sensitivity. I'm pretty sure that if you're looking at ability to transmit vibrations, the modulus is going to be directly correlated to the result, meaning high modulus graphite will always transmit vibrations more quickly and with greater amplitude than a lower modulus material. But figuring out a way to meaningfully measure "fishing sensitivity " is pretty much chasing a ghost. It's funny because fly rods are consistently upgraded with new materials every year, but it has nothing to do with sensitivity and instead focuses on weight, speed of recovery, and lifting power (in some cases). Of course, many, if not most, fly anglers will tell you that fly rods have mecome too fast to make the kinds of casts most people need to execute to catch fish as opposed to just throwing a long line.

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Re: Rod sensitivity subjective?

Postby zodiak311 » Wed Mar 08, 2017 5:31 am

Almost impossible to do, but it would be awesome if someone stripped all identifiers on a dozen manufactured rods.

Then have people fish them, and then rank them in regards to sensitivity.

Coke or Pepsi? Shimano or Daiwa? Chevrolet or Ford?

In the end I am going to choose what I like, with overall build and sensitivity as major factors.
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Re: Rod sensitivity subjective?

Postby BRONZEBACK32 » Wed Mar 08, 2017 5:43 pm

Out of all the rods I have fished, to me the NRX is the winner for Sensitivity

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Re: Rod sensitivity subjective?

Postby smalljaw » Wed Mar 08, 2017 7:36 pm

What none of you are taking the human hand into account. Take a HD TV for example, I had a guy try to get me to buy Monster HDMI cables saying they are better than the generic high speed ones I was going to buy so I did some research. I talked to an expert from Crutchfield and they did the measurements for from rate and resolution and he told me that indeed the Monster cables where better but the difference was so minute that it is imperceptible to the human eye, so you pay 4 times the price for a better cable that doesn't do anything for you to enhance your experience other than saying you have an expensive cable. So take the human hand, if you are a construction worker and have calloused hands, well you might not be able to tell the difference between a $200 rod and a $500 rod, but smooth sissy boy hands may be able to pick up subtle differences so having a machine that can give you a reading on sensitivity would be good but only if it translates to what you feel in your hand, unless you believe it is worth it to have the best no matter how much, or how little, it actually helps.

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Re: Rod sensitivity subjective?

Postby ccass » Thu Mar 09, 2017 1:42 am

smalljaw wrote:What none of you are taking the human hand into account. Take a HD TV for example, I had a guy try to get me to buy Monster HDMI cables saying they are better than the generic high speed ones I was going to buy so I did some research. I talked to an expert from Crutchfield and they did the measurements for from rate and resolution and he told me that indeed the Monster cables where better but the difference was so minute that it is imperceptible to the human eye, so you pay 4 times the price for a better cable that doesn't do anything for you to enhance your experience other than saying you have an expensive cable. So take the human hand, if you are a construction worker and have calloused hands, well you might not be able to tell the difference between a $200 rod and a $500 rod, but smooth sissy boy hands may be able to pick up subtle differences so having a machine that can give you a reading on sensitivity would be good but only if it translates to what you feel in your hand, unless you believe it is worth it to have the best no matter how much, or how little, it actually helps.


That is why I exfoliate my hands with a sugar/sand blend. I also make sure I use a TENS device to stimulate the nerves in my hands. That way, I know if I ever miss a fish, I did everything physically possible to prevent it.

I think rod companies would not be game for putting numbers to rod performance because when the customer sees Rod X is this sensitive and Rod Y, which is 300 bucks more, only transmits 3.45% more vibrations. The customer would be more apt to buy the "lesser" product because it is better for the money.

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BRONZEBACK32
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Re: Rod sensitivity subjective?

Postby BRONZEBACK32 » Thu Mar 09, 2017 3:51 am

But if you have calloused hands, it would be easier to pick up bites from a more sensitive rod since it transmits
a stronger vibration down the blank. .

I would compare a rod to more like a vibrating chair, sure you can feel the vibration from the real cheap battery operated
chair from walmart, but if you get a better more expensive model you will truly know what a reel vibration chair feels like.

I also have sissy hands, so I might be wrong :big grin:

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Re: Rod sensitivity subjective?

Postby Obz » Thu Mar 09, 2017 5:54 am

Here is an example of an experiment that I could see working.

Go out on a lake on a calm day, anchor, cast a line. C-clamp a rod as it is distributed to the public to something sturdy. Attach a meter that measures frequency and displacement of vibrations (these instruments exist) to the reel seat of the rod. Reel the line back to the boat while making contact with the bottom. Repeat with different rods. The rod that measures the highest frequency and displacement is also the most sensitive rod in that situation. I would imagine you could repeat this process with different bottom composition, lines and lures as long as you change 1 variable at a time. Then you can factor in personal preference and ability to decide which rod you think is best overall.
Last edited by Obz on Thu Mar 09, 2017 9:06 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Rod sensitivity subjective?

Postby njbasscat » Thu Mar 09, 2017 8:50 am

Obz wrote:Here is an example of an example of an experiment that I could see working.

Go out on a lake on a calm day, anchor, cast a line. C-clamp a rod as it is distributed to the public to something sturdy. Attach a meter that measures frequency and displacement of vibrations (these instruments exist) to the reel seat of the rod. Reel the line back to the boat while making contact with the bottom. Repeat with different rods. The rod that measures the highest frequency and displacement is also the most sensitive rod in that situation. I would imagine you could repeat this process with different bottom composition, lines and lures as long as you change 1 variable at a time. Then you can factor in personal preference and ability to decide which rod you think is best overall.

Or you could just fish with them. Your hands and brain will tell you which one is the most sensative.

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Obz
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Re: Rod sensitivity subjective?

Postby Obz » Thu Mar 09, 2017 9:08 am

njbasscat wrote:
Obz wrote:Here is an example of an example of an experiment that I could see working.

Go out on a lake on a calm day, anchor, cast a line. C-clamp a rod as it is distributed to the public to something sturdy. Attach a meter that measures frequency and displacement of vibrations (these instruments exist) to the reel seat of the rod. Reel the line back to the boat while making contact with the bottom. Repeat with different rods. The rod that measures the highest frequency and displacement is also the most sensitive rod in that situation. I would imagine you could repeat this process with different bottom composition, lines and lures as long as you change 1 variable at a time. Then you can factor in personal preference and ability to decide which rod you think is best overall.

Or you could just fish with them. Your hands and brain will tell you which one is the most sensative.


Right because most people can shell out 500 at a time to try a new rod to see if they like it

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uljersey
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Re: Rod sensitivity subjective?

Postby uljersey » Thu Mar 09, 2017 9:22 am

Obz wrote: That's why people buy $700 rods.


Some people buy $700 rods because they've found that's what works for them ... and some people buy them because they cost $700 ...

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Re: Rod sensitivity subjective?

Postby njbasscat » Thu Mar 09, 2017 9:38 am

Obz wrote:
njbasscat wrote:
Obz wrote:Here is an example of an example of an experiment that I could see working.

Go out on a lake on a calm day, anchor, cast a line. C-clamp a rod as it is distributed to the public to something sturdy. Attach a meter that measures frequency and displacement of vibrations (these instruments exist) to the reel seat of the rod. Reel the line back to the boat while making contact with the bottom. Repeat with different rods. The rod that measures the highest frequency and displacement is also the most sensitive rod in that situation. I would imagine you could repeat this process with different bottom composition, lines and lures as long as you change 1 variable at a time. Then you can factor in personal preference and ability to decide which rod you think is best overall.

Or you could just fish with them. Your hands and brain will tell you which one is the most sensative.


Right because most people can shell out 500 at a time to try a new rod to see if they like it

You can buy one used, try a friends, and read forums like this one to get an idea of what others have experienced. An arbitrary number won't tell you much because everyone perceives sensativity through touch in a different way. Your brain has to process the sense of touch. There is a reason why some people excel at professions that require a keen sense of touch like surgeons for example. This is why sensativity is subjective and can't be measured. The human brain is much too complicated.

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Re: Rod sensitivity subjective?

Postby ayo8 » Thu Mar 09, 2017 10:13 am

Rod sensitivity subjective? Absolutely.

I can put braid on a rhino 33 seated on an ugly stick and make it as sensitive as any $700-1000 rod I have :)


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