Rod sensitivity subjective?

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Mike and Pike
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Re: Rod sensitivity subjective?

Postby Mike and Pike » Thu Mar 09, 2017 10:14 am

I have owned quite a few Legends and Xtremes and a few NRXs. All superb rods for what I intended to use them.
But, once again, another vote for NRX being noticeably more sensitive in my ordinary, average hands.
At what point do we come to an agreement? Need we run a poll? After that poll (for those who have used NRXs and their other options for years now) tells us definitively by numbers what's what, will that be good enough?
If there is one single rod that is used as the yardstick for sensitivity it is the NRX. And we all know it. Sensitivity is only so subjective after all, and I am willing to bet a polls agrees with me.

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mhood
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Re: Rod sensitivity subjective?

Postby mhood » Thu Mar 09, 2017 11:00 am

You've never fished a Daiko, have you? ;)
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Re: Rod sensitivity subjective?

Postby Mike and Pike » Thu Mar 09, 2017 11:15 am

mhood wrote:You've never fished a Daiko, have you? ;)

I am quite sure rods exist that have been made more sensitive than an NRX.
The reason everyone compares NRX to everyone else is that it is available for the masses. And everyone knows the product. Thus NRXs are the yardstick as opposed to something virtually impossible to pick up off a rack in the U.S.
It is , at the least, the most sensitive readily available rod here today. I have stated that a poll may confirm this. I am sticking to that statement.

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Re: Rod sensitivity subjective?

Postby Mike and Pike » Thu Mar 09, 2017 12:14 pm

Also, if I were a rod maker trying to make the most sensitive blank available, I sure as heck would not paint it...

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Re: Rod sensitivity subjective?

Postby Obz » Thu Mar 09, 2017 4:14 pm

You can send a signal through a material and measure it. I don't know how that can be considered arbitrary or subjective because its not. I suggested a reasonable experiment, which I believed to be in the nature of this forum and backed up my opinion with facts. It surprises me that more people aren't interested in the tackle tour staff doing a lab test similar to what I mentioned or finding out what they have tried and found to be difficult. I think it's easy and boring to say; Oh there are too many variables, a copy of a copy of a copies brain varies too much for a scientifically engineered and calibrated instrument to deliver useful feedback on this particular subject.

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Re: Rod sensitivity subjective?

Postby iabass8 » Thu Mar 09, 2017 11:40 pm

Obz wrote:You can send a signal through a material and measure it. I don't know how that can be considered arbitrary or subjective because its not. I suggested a reasonable experiment, which I believed to be in the nature of this forum and backed up my opinion with facts. It surprises me that more people aren't interested in the tackle tour staff doing a lab test similar to what I mentioned or finding out what they have tried and found to be difficult. I think it's easy and boring to say; Oh there are too many variables, a copy of a copy of a copies brain varies too much for a scientifically engineered and calibrated instrument to deliver useful feedback on this particular subject.


People are not interested in it because what you were wanting to do is a lab test on what a machine will measure what a rod sensitivity level is. The problem with that is that, while you will get some sort of result, everybody feels and senses or perceive things differently. If they put out a report that Rod a is X percent more sensitive than rod B that isn't going to be a 100% true result when actually used in real time by real people. You can comfortably say an NRX is more sensitive than us new people. You cannot say definitively that a GLX is more so than an NRX because there are people that have used both and will say that they cannot tell the difference between the same model in both lineups. others will say they can't tell the difference. This is why the test is meaningless.

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Re: Rod sensitivity subjective?

Postby papabassin » Fri Mar 10, 2017 1:31 am

To play devil's advocate on this sort of testing:

Say that to-date, the most sensitive rod you've ever fished with was an Ultima; however, you have never fished with an NRX, because you aren't really into recoil guides and you've heard some feedback that they can be unbalanced.

Then there was a test that came out with results saying that the NRX was more sensitive than an Ultima. And at the time, you were debating whether or not to get another Ultima until you saw these test results...so you decided to bite the bullet and buy an NRX instead of another Ultima. Even though the majority of the people you've messaged up to this point on TT that have fished both say that the Ultima is more sensitive than the NRX. Come to find out after actually fishing the NRX, it isn't more sensitive than the Ultima in your hands. Now, you've ended up with a rod that wasn't as sensitive, not as balanced, and had recoil guides on it. Would you be happier since the test said the NRX was more sensitive? I mean the test said so, right?

To me, this is what this kind of testing could/would lead to...

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Re: Rod sensitivity subjective?

Postby ccass » Fri Mar 10, 2017 2:24 am

papabassin wrote:To play devil's advocate on this sort of testing:

Say that to-date, the most sensitive rod you've ever fished with was an Ultima; however, you have never fished with an NRX, because you aren't really into recoil guides and you've heard some feedback that they can be unbalanced.

Then there was a test that came out with results saying that the NRX was more sensitive than an Ultima. And at the time, you were debating whether or not to get another Ultima until you saw these test results...so you decided to bite the bullet and buy an NRX instead of another Ultima. Even though the majority of the people you've messaged up to this point on TT that have fished both say that the Ultima is more sensitive than the NRX. Come to find out after actually fishing the NRX, it isn't more sensitive than the Ultima in your hands. Now, you've ended up with a rod that wasn't as sensitive, not as balanced, and had recoil guides on it. Would you be happier since the test said the NRX was more sensitive? I mean the test said so, right?

To me, this is what this kind of testing could/would lead to...


To piggy back off of that, what if rod companies start only caring about a vibration test and cheap out on guides, balance, weight...just to sell that one metric?

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Re: Rod sensitivity subjective?

Postby Bootytrain » Fri Mar 10, 2017 2:47 am

papabassin wrote:To play devil's advocate on this sort of testing:

Say that to-date, the most sensitive rod you've ever fished with was an Ultima; however, you have never fished with an NRX, because you aren't really into recoil guides and you've heard some feedback that they can be unbalanced.

Then there was a test that came out with results saying that the NRX was more sensitive than an Ultima. And at the time, you were debating whether or not to get another Ultima until you saw these test results...so you decided to bite the bullet and buy an NRX instead of another Ultima. Even though the majority of the people you've messaged up to this point on TT that have fished both say that the Ultima is more sensitive than the NRX. Come to find out after actually fishing the NRX, it isn't more sensitive than the Ultima in your hands. Now, you've ended up with a rod that wasn't as sensitive, not as balanced, and had recoil guides on it. Would you be happier since the test said the NRX was more sensitive? I mean the test said so, right?

To me, this is what this kind of testing could/would lead to...

This post really makes me want an Ultima!

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Re: Rod sensitivity subjective?

Postby Handler » Fri Mar 10, 2017 10:12 am

This is silly. You can measure sensitivity scientifically just like you can measure weight, length, action, etc. Measuring sensitivity is just another spec to help evaluate a rod on paper. This is absolutely in the spirit of tackle tour and I'm sure Cal would agree.

Look at line. In order to establish a baseline for quantitative comparison, we measure breaking strength, strength to diameter ratio, knot strength and a number of other things, even though on the water so much depends on you, the knots you tie, your skill tying them and your line's condition. Just because you have better luck with your most practiced knot, or antidotal successes or failures doesn't make the initial tests less valid or useful.

Back to rods, if you have dull nerves, calloused hands or wear gloves, the sensitivity of one rod over anther should still be relative. In no ones hands is a fiberglass rod more sensitive than a high end graphite rod. Let's figure out a scientific way to rank rods in terms of sensitivity and then we can all use that new data point along with all the others to make informed decisions.

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Re: Rod sensitivity subjective?

Postby Randingo » Fri Mar 10, 2017 10:38 am

My only thought is that the attempts to quantify characteristics of lines such as abrasion resistance seem to have little bearing on real world performance. Rather than rating knot strength based on a couple of knots, it would be far more useful to know which knots (of a broader selection) yielded the best results with each line. Of course, break strength and diameter are critical, but most of the rest of the tests don't seem to carry over into the testers' experience with the line in the field. I fear sensitivity would end up being a similarly ineffective measurement. I'd love to see a more detailed article about how rate of deflection bears on casting and fish fighting performance since that is the hardest measurement we have as to how a rod performs.

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Re: Rod sensitivity subjective?

Postby Hogsticker2 » Fri Mar 10, 2017 11:37 am

So let me get this straight. You guys want to take every single rod within a series, let's just say with a price point above 250, and put them through a series of scientific experiments to determine which is most sensitive? Back to my original point, there are designated rods within any given series that really shine, and some that don't. I'm talking about different lengths, powers, etc. You can't just group the series as a whole and say these are the most sensitive set of rods. For example, a 7' medium power Nrx may win your tests against the equivalent Z Bone, but the 7' heavy power Z Bone takes the cake against the equivalent Nrx. Who has that kind of time? And then what about custom rods? I can possibly achieve different results by using different components on the same blank. Who has that kind of money? I really feel this is over thinking. As already mentioned, some of the results discovered would likely be so minimal that the consumer is going to buy the rod that has a 3% decrease in sensitivity as long as it has the exact components that individual prefers and simply feels right in their hands. I think we already have a pretty good idea as to what rods get the nod in the sensitivity department and could care less about exact measurements. Get yourself a high end blank, build it tight, build it light, and go rip some lips. At the end of the day, what justifies say a hundred dollar jump in price? 5% increase in sensitivity. 10%? It's still 100% up to the individual consumer. Are these tests going to be a requirement for every new stick that hits the market? If that job opening becomes available put me 1st in line please.

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mhood
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Re: Rod sensitivity subjective?

Postby mhood » Fri Mar 10, 2017 11:42 am

Is sensitivity all that important in a cranking stick? A jerkb8 stick? A topwater stick? Frogs? :?
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Re: Rod sensitivity subjective?

Postby reason162 » Fri Mar 10, 2017 11:50 am

Hogsticker2 wrote:At the end of the day, what justifies say a hundred dollar jump in price? 5% increase in sensitivity. 10%?


Do the tests and let the market sort it out. More information is always better imo.

Pair the sensitivity numbers to rod strength numbers, and you have something to think about when you're ordering your next rod.

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Re: Rod sensitivity subjective?

Postby Hogsticker2 » Fri Mar 10, 2017 11:57 am

reason162 wrote:
Hogsticker2 wrote:At the end of the day, what justifies say a hundred dollar jump in price? 5% increase in sensitivity. 10%?


Do the tests and let the market sort it out. More information is always better imo.

Pair the sensitivity numbers to rod strength numbers, and you have something to think about when you're ordering your next rod.

Okay. So who's doing the testing? There is already a form of strength to weight ratios on rod blanks. And personally as I already stated, if said rod has a ten percent gain in sensitivity performance but doesn't have the components I desire, I'm going with the other rod. I understand what you guys are saying. It's yet another piece of the puzzle. I'm just puzzled with how it's going to happen. Doesn't seem very realistic to me.


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