Is it true that US and Japanese line manufacturers have different lb rating system

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QUAKEnSHAKE
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Re: Is it true that US and Japanese line manufacturers have different lb rating system

Postby QUAKEnSHAKE » Sun Mar 19, 2017 11:08 am

Prancing Pony wrote:I'm very pissed atm because I can't figure out what my Spiderwire Stealth's true breaking strain is. I have spools of 6lb and 10lb, and I swear the 6lb Stealth's diameter is at least as large as a 20lb average braid.

Might be better to find out the knot strength. Most knots will break below the actual line strength.

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Re: Is it true that US and Japanese line manufacturers have different lb rating system

Postby Prancing Pony » Sun Mar 19, 2017 1:36 pm

Randingo wrote:I remember a little blurb in an issue of In Fisherman probably 10-12 years ago. A guy caught a fish on 6lb Fireline he thought might qualify as a line class record. So he sent the documentation on the fish and a sample of his line to the IGFA to try to get his record certified. When the IGFA got back to him, they determined that his 6# Fireline broke at just over 20 pounds! Six pound Fireline is tiny, so it isn't just diameter. We're still learning about the properties of gel spun PE and how to best incorporate it into fishing lines. At the end of the day, you want to find a line that behaves the way you want and is consistent. It doesn't matter if 20# 832 actually breaks at 30 if it does what you want it to do, and if Sunline FX2 in 50# isn't as strong as you want it be, buy it in 60 instead. Those lines perform consistently, and even if Sunline labels their line with its true breaking strength and Sufix understates the breaking strength on their labels, you just need to find the one that works for you and the intended application.

I mention Sufix and Sunline because I have more experience with them. I'm sure Seaguar, Maxima, and many others are also consistent within their lines, so just find something you like that is consistent across different pound tests and stick with it.

I understand what you mean but it still cannot be an excuse for the companies not labeling their products correctly.

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Re: Is it true that US and Japanese line manufacturers have different lb rating system

Postby Randingo » Mon Mar 20, 2017 11:34 am

Prancing Pony wrote:I understand what you mean but it still cannot be an excuse for the companies not labeling their products correctly.


There's actually a significant problem that prevents US lines from switching over to an IGFA accurate labeling system: only a small percentage of their customers are educated enough to understand what's going on. For the rest of the consumers who have always bought, e.g. Trilene XT, they're going to think something's wrong because their ten pound test line no longer breaks at fifteen pounds, and they keep losing fish and tackle to breakoffs they never had before. The conclusion these anglers will reach is that their old favorite line now sucks and they have to try something else. I also wonder if there wouldn't be considerable retooling required for production. I don't know how fishing line is made, but I imagine each rated pound test has some machine(s) that controls the diameter of the line. If they suddenly switch over, I don't think they can just switch the machine that produces 12 and call it 17. If you want breaking strength to be accurate, then the manufacturer has to figure out what diameter really is 4# and 8#, etc.; otherwise, they'll have lines that come in 7#, 11#, 19#, etc., and less informed anglers won't understand what they're buying, and there will be no standard offerings from brand to brand or even line to line within the same brand. People want lines that are 6, 8, 10, 12, 14, 17, 20 pound test, etc. Maybe I'm wrong, but I think they'd confuse and annoy a big part of their customer base. Hell, I'm pretty detail oriented, and I find it difficult to decide which strength of a Sunline product I want to buy. 16# Supernatural probably breaks at the same point as 10# Sufix Seige. I know what to expect and how hard I can pull and set the hook with Seige, but I don't know what to expect from Sunline. If I go with Sunline 10# for applications that I used 10# Seige, I'm going to get lots of breakoffs. The best we can hope to get from American line manufacturers is the labeled strength and the actual breaking strength on the same package so people can begin to get used to reality. It'll take a long time after that before they'll go to a system where they label true strength.

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Re: Is it true that US and Japanese line manufacturers have different lb rating system

Postby Snyder Rods » Thu Mar 23, 2017 3:22 am

Yes..... Europe and Asia choose their line by diameter. They are smarter than us. Physics tells us that most of the line properties are in the diameter.

U.S. customers go by pound test.... so in America, all a manufacturer has to do is put 16lb. test line in an 8lb. box to lay claim to the strongest line in the world!

Case in point: I have Stren Magnathin 16lb. test and Stren Brute Strength 8lb. - they are the same diameter and strength.

Just choose and compare your line by diameter and disregard the lb. test, regardless of country or market of origin, and you'll have no problem.

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Re: Is it true that US and Japanese line manufacturers have different lb rating system

Postby Prancing Pony » Thu Mar 23, 2017 11:47 am

Snyder Rods wrote:Yes..... Europe and Asia choose their line by diameter. They are smarter than us. Physics tells us that most of the line properties are in the diameter.

U.S. customers go by pound test.... so in America, all a manufacturer has to do is put 16lb. test line in an 8lb. box to lay claim to the strongest line in the world!

Case in point: I have Stren Magnathin 16lb. test and Stren Brute Strength 8lb. - they are the same diameter and strength.

Just choose and compare your line by diameter and disregard the lb. test, regardless of country or market of origin, and you'll have no problem.

Problem is that few manufacturers are labeling their braids' diameter accurately. The only way left for you is to measure it yourself with vernier calipers, which ALSO can be off because a braid's cross-section isn't hard and uniform like a nylon's or fluoro's.

IMH, evey single fishing line manufacturer out there needs to test and label its breaking strain like the Japanese companies do with their high-end braids - tell us at what lb the line actually breaks + diameter.
Last edited by Prancing Pony on Thu Mar 23, 2017 12:07 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Is it true that US and Japanese line manufacturers have different lb rating system

Postby Mike and Pike » Thu Mar 23, 2017 11:53 am

Prancing Pony wrote:
Snyder Rods wrote:Yes..... Europe and Asia choose their line by diameter. They are smarter than us. Physics tells us that most of the line properties are in the diameter.

U.S. customers go by pound test.... so in America, all a manufacturer has to do is put 16lb. test line in an 8lb. box to lay claim to the strongest line in the world!

Case in point: I have Stren Magnathin 16lb. test and Stren Brute Strength 8lb. - they are the same diameter and strength.

Just choose and compare your line by diameter and disregard the lb. test, regardless of country or market of origin, and you'll have no problem.

Problem is that few manufacturers are labeling their braids' diameter accurately. The only way left for you is to measure it yourself with vernier calipers, which ALSO can be off because a braid's cross-section isn't hard and uniform like a nylon's or fluoro's.

I am curious how you know that very few manufacturers are labeling diameters accurately.

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Re: Is it true that US and Japanese line manufacturers have different lb rating system

Postby Prancing Pony » Thu Mar 23, 2017 11:58 am

Mike and Pike wrote:
Prancing Pony wrote:Problem is that few manufacturers are labeling their braids' diameter accurately. The only way left for you is to measure it yourself with vernier calipers, which ALSO can be off because a braid's cross-section isn't hard and uniform like a nylon's or fluoro's.

I am curious how you know that very few manufacturers are labeling diameters accurately.

I've seen myriads of line reviews throughout my fishing life and only a handful of products were measured accurately in terms of line diameter(and breaking strain). When it comes to braids it gets worse.

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Re: Is it true that US and Japanese line manufacturers have different lb rating system

Postby QUAKEnSHAKE » Thu Mar 23, 2017 1:19 pm

I have Samurai .012 and YGK G-soul x8 that is .012 but the G-soul is definitely thicker.

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Re: Is it true that US and Japanese line manufacturers have different lb rating system

Postby mark poulson » Thu Mar 23, 2017 2:08 pm

Prancing Pony wrote:
Snyder Rods wrote:Yes..... Europe and Asia choose their line by diameter. They are smarter than us. Physics tells us that most of the line properties are in the diameter.

U.S. customers go by pound test.... so in America, all a manufacturer has to do is put 16lb. test line in an 8lb. box to lay claim to the strongest line in the world!

Case in point: I have Stren Magnathin 16lb. test and Stren Brute Strength 8lb. - they are the same diameter and strength.

Just choose and compare your line by diameter and disregard the lb. test, regardless of country or market of origin, and you'll have no problem.

Problem is that few manufacturers are labeling their braids' diameter accurately. The only way left for you is to measure it yourself with vernier calipers, which ALSO can be off because a braid's cross-section isn't hard and uniform like a nylon's or fluoro's.

IMH, evey single fishing line manufacturer out there needs to test and label its breaking strain like the Japanese companies do with their high-end braids - tell us at what lb the line actually breaks + diameter.


When I coat the first four+-feet of my braid with a black sharpie to make it less noticeable, it also makes it rigid. That makes it easier for me to thread through a punch skirt, and to tie knots. I bet it would also make it easier to measure with calipers.

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Re: Is it true that US and Japanese line manufacturers have different lb rating system

Postby Pen3 » Fri Mar 24, 2017 4:42 am

QUAKEnSHAKE wrote:I have Samurai .012 and YGK G-soul x8 that is .012 but the G-soul is definitely thicker.

could be just a thick coating that has yet to break in.


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